It’s no secret that the Call of Duty Hardcore Community has been aching for more Hardcore modes to play on. With only 4 modes out of the box, it’s only a matter of time before more are added or considered.

Treyarch’s David Vonderhaar recently paid a visit to the Official Call of Duty Forums to reach out to fans and see what they would like to see next in Hardcore Playlist. It’s just an open discussion for now so no promises just yet, but it’s still a start. We always asummed Hardcore wasn’t the most popular but we had no idea how low the demand was.

You can read (and reply) to the thread HERE.

David Vonderhaar’s message after the break…


I know the Hardcore crowd loves Hardcore. I love me some Hardcore Search & Destroy, personally. You are a small enough community where I feel like I know some of you personally.

The problem here is that not every gamemode playable in a hardcore variant has sufficent enough traffic to warrant having it’s own playlist.

Hardcore Free-For-All, for example, has a very low traffic count. This makes Matchmaking in that playlist more difficult.

While I’m sure that the 4000 people in it right now are loving it, I’m just being open with with you when I say that something with less than 1% of the total population barely justifies it’s own playlist.

What follows next is a discussion point. It’s not a committement or a guarantee. I am taking feedback as we think about how to provide more hardcore game modes as Public Playlists without fragmenting the small Hardcore community or matchmaking.

I would appreciate it if you please keep your posts on-topic and civil. Please hardcore community, police your own. I am counting on you to make it worthwhile to have a thread going.

As a snapshot in time, these are the Hardcore modes in order of popularity.

1. Hardcore TDM (by a large margin)
2. Hardcore CTF
3. Hardcore Search
4. Hardcore FFA

Where do you go from here? Sacrifice Hardcore FFA for a Moshpit, Kill Confirmed, or something else entirelly?

Some of you will be tempted to say “Give every game mode it’s own Hardcore playlist.” Save yourself some trouble. I totally get it. You like Hardcore.

However, Hardcore is not a gamemode. It’s a variant on the game rules. One that is popular with a very passionate, but very small crowd of people.

Keeping the 80,000 (or so, across 2 platforms) of you together and able to play together has to be a priority over any specfic variant.

Finally, in case you are just joining us on this game, we go through this every two years with you.

This year is no different. We put out the game. We then figure out what is popular amongst the Hardcore (and other variant, but relatively small communities), and we make adjustments that are in the best intrests of the game and the community. This year is no different. Of course we’ll make adjustments. We always do.


SOURCE: Official Call of Duty Forums Via @xMaccabix


    You know what is funny? They are complaining that 4000 people in a playlist isn’t enough, but right now, 2608 people are playing in league play, which I find FUCKING HILARIOUS.

    • DanDustEmOff

      I agree league play has never been popular so why they put so much effort into it is beyond me also how on earth can u have a competitive league on p2p is beyond me

      • Rock3rGTR

        Starcraft does it fine. I’ll grant it, its alot harder with a twitch oriented game like Call of Duty, but its quite fun, and its basically a huge twist on normal multiplayer. I myself have gotten my team into Platinum division and we’re working on getting into Masters. It brings “teams” together. It isn’t mean to be for your average guy who just wants to kill some people before work.

        • Argy

          But to be honest, if you want to make something popular then do you head for the hardcore players that will play it anyway or the average guy who has 10 minutes and wants a balanced match? That’s the flaw in it right now, they are heading for teams instead of for single-player balances.

          • Rock3rGTR

            No thats the point. They aren’t trying to make it the next big thing. They just want to make people aware that its there. Treyarch obviously knows that 90% of the community will never touch league, but they can try to get people to atleast try it. The people who have gripes about league play are people who have never played in a system like it before. I play alot of Starcraft and the system is essentially exactly the same. The skill based matchmaking works great. If I’m on a win streak, I get paired up against really hard teams and will usually end up losing. Thats the fun of it really. Teams is the key focus. David Vonderhaar said it himself in a tweet, you will not survive in league if you’re playing by yourself, atleast in the Champions series. Also, what the hell is the point of hating on league play, you don’t have to play it. And for the record…hardcore gets 4 game modes, so does league, so please don’t say they favor one over the other. We get TDM, Search, Hardpoint and KC.

          • Argy

            You are an interesting person, because you miss the point of matchmaking completely and then compare it to a game in a completely different genre. Nice. Also, btw, Starcraft FORCES matchmaking unless you play a custom, IE they FORCED it to be the next big thing. BlOps2 doesn’t. So already your model fails in two ways.

            Just FYI, the point of matchmaking is to create balanced matches for a more intense game. If your system requires teams to play at your rank, then there is a problem with the matchmaking. Theoretically, if the system works properly, then anyone should be able to go in solo and be evenly matched after being placed.

        • DanDustEmOff

          In starcraft its about tactics not split second reactions winning a gun fight in black ops 2 is decided by your ping and distance from the host not who is the better player

    • DS

      SMH… first off, it’s 4000 people between 4 hardcore playlists. League play is one playlist. Secondly, the “season” hasn’t officially started yet. It’s in trial mode. Third, the game is still new and people are trying to rank up in the regular lobbies. I have a feeling, call me crazy, but when people start getting to their fifth prestige or so, and the “season” starts, you’ll see a lot more people in the League playlist.

      • Argy

        Technically speaking, league play would be more closely related to having 6 lists since there are 6 divisions and it tries to get you within ±1 division… so in all it’s about the same split in number of lists you can play on.

    • Argy

      I’m 150% against league play, not because I’m against the idea of fair matches but because it is NOT fair matches. The description of league play, as described by DV, was that it will be skill based matchmaking. Yet I have to sit here and wonder how it is “Skill Based” when they also said that the way your rank is decided is based on wins.

      Now, in a stupid world, wins would equal more skill than another team. But in a smart world, we know that one person might be on the losing team that actually is amazing but is stuck in the wrong league thanks to always playing alone on the losing team. Halo tried this, and in my opinion Halo is a prime example of how WIN BASED matchmaking does not work.

      But the part that baffles me is that they made a score system that COULD allow for easy-to-identify skill versus a win system and then balance it from there. But then again, this is Treyarch where you have to follow the golden rule: 1 good idea for 3 bad ones.

      • DS

        OK…. you’re obviously misguided. I’m in the platinum tier of the moshpit series. The league play starts with 5 placement matches. I lost 4 out of 5 of those matches, but played the objectives, and had a good K/D. So the initial match make IS based on your skill, not your W/L. You move up and down the rankings based on your W/L. It’s a fabulous idea, and I believe it will, or at least should, become very popular with players of all skill.

        • Argy

          That’s not how the math works with a Win/Loss system. It’s not directly influenced by the number of wins/losses, but also by the types of players you are against. In other words, although you lost a game, it looks at by how much and to what other level there was.

  • HH

    Hmm, maybe it’s because League Play is something brand new for them and they are trying to get it off the ground. They aren’t about to scrap it after the game has been out for only 2 weeks. Derrrr.

  • JoseB88

    How about they fix their damn servers!! I been getting disconnected for no apparent reason in the last hour.

  • Hunterio13

    They should add in a playlist just for GORE!

  • Kawan Best

    I think the modes in HC cant be changed I don’t like TDM and FFA. Most people lay on their belly’s in those modes. Search and Destroy and CTF is good but I need the chaos of Domination. Its fast and has no respawn time. I bet anything that you’d have more hc players in domination than core players. And let’s see some hard point guys

  • Jerry_flores2011

    I would love to see some HC Domination. That was my game in MW3 and also the first Black Ops. Also kill confirmed would be nice. I enjoy the hardcore mode only because well they’re much more fun to play.

    HC Dom
    HC HQ
    HC KC

  • Jojo

    Good luck signing up and posting to that forum. If you figure out a way, let me know.

  • Maedcjc

    Balls, they are trying to stop people ranking up fast the same reason they tried to remove nuke town 247. They don’t want u finishing the same quickly and moving on to another game. as people can rank up so much faster in hc gamemodes like hq and dom. so how come u only have ctf with a spawn delay s and d one life and Tdm spawn delay, Dom hc headquarters is a must and are much more popular in the hc community. Why even have playlists separating hc and core why not a button that can change the game mode. Eg u search for a game and u can press a button to change core to on or off. This would make hc played a lot more so u can change it liked do the dlc’s on and off when searching for a game it’s a great idear.

    • incubusman421

      There is no Nuketown 24/7 on BO2… They had it for the first weekend then put NT2025 in a moshpit playlist with other smaller maps. They call it the Chaos Playlist or something. I HATE hardcore because you have so much down time and I am not going to sit and wait for another player to walk into my cross-hairs.

  • laughingmarbles

    Forgive my ignorance, but why is it so hard to add more HC game modes? Does it mess up the connection? Or, does it make other games slower for players in other game modes?

    • Chris Harford

      It breaks up the amount of people. It isnt hard to add more HC game modes, but there simply isnt enough people to play them all, so in order to keep games going (bringing people in when people leave, or just simply filling lobbies) they have to keep the amount of HC game modes to a minimum.

  • Xaongamingx

    How about fix our PS3 servers that are so inconsistent and the lag is horrible!

  • Black ops 2

    Oh right so they want more hardcore playlists yet the barebones community gets no love at all. Surely im not the only person who does not want to hear “enemy UAV inbound” every half a second

  • Ed

    get rid of search and ffa and add a domination and a moshpit with the rest of the gamemodes. ffa and search are absolutely boring if you aren’t the greatest player. just my opinion.

  • Cswarren

    We want hard core kill confirmed . Hard core does not have as much traffic because everyone its playing the core version because lol no hard core. I play just about only hard core but the games i want to play are only core ,so just like everyone else i play core. So u cant really justifie not gsve any more hard core modes be saying traffic is to low sence u have fored everyone to play core by giving us a bad lineup . So i will not play hcffa or hc ctf, or your fav hc s&d i play hctdm ans crappy core kc .
    My 2 cents Runningman22
    Used to be WO!F o wait cant ! In clan name. So like every other clan hard to change it to LycA. Peace out have good day

  • Grizzly2619

    Vahn, The ONLY reason you have that many people playing CORE is because the crap playlist you set up on HC. If you put HCKC or HCHQ on there it would dominate your whole core community.

  • Tgiants

    Disappointing Vahn, without hckc I doubt I will buy maps or continue playing much longer

  • Bassett

    Hardcore HQ.! We were promised as a hardcore HQ clan that it will be in the game playlist from the release date
    But yet again we have to wait as per usual unlike original black ops which was the same game distributor why is it not in black ops 2.! Hmmm

  • so you basically gave us a xmas present, said one part isn’t being used enough so your taking it apart… :/ well i liked my present how i bought it, i wanted hardcore modes ADDED not taken away, you might as well just get rid of hardcore then, everyone else will go on battlefront 2, i think ill play The Sims 3

  • Kaspar Daniel

    HC Free for all please

    • Kaspar Daniel

      i play only HC Free for all with my homies, i like this game

  • Sonsofthunder25

    That’s a way lose people .but they do go back to mw3

  • i was 100th in the world in hc kc, out of like 2.8 million people last time i checked, where are you getting the 80 thousand, its a hell of a lot more than that, get hardcore domination made


    Hardcore free for all is awesome I believe it’s fun to play when your buddies are not online its you vs everybody else…. I believe a lot of the people I join and play with Are not as good as me so I’m always the first player on the list I feel like I am the whole team motivator and am the one who wins the matches For my team All in all I’d rather just play Hardcore free for all!! me against everybody else I am my own team I don’t need to play with any team players i only play other game modes occasionally to hang out with my buddies Which do crappy anyways! I have always dominated on hardcore free for all! I gave up black ops 2 and had started playing black ops in the middle of the year of black ops 2 because I love hardcore free for all so much! If you could please put it back on black ops 2 And I would totally spend the money on the maps and everything else! And I would love to see hardcore free for all on the new Ghost But like always Treyarch has always had hardcore free for all!! I don’t understand?! Well I think main reason is because the people that do try and play it aren’t as good so they give up on it right away and go back to their team which supports them anyways! This is the only reason why I buy a tryarch games is for hardcore free for all!! I love the rush! I love the feeling of being number one! that I cannot be beat by anybody!- or because my teammates lack an ability to control the environment! Anyways! thank you so much for reading my comments and listening;) I hope that they make the right choice and put hardcore free for all on all the treyarch Call of Duty games because there should be one player vs all To see who the number one guy is in the world by them self and not with there team or clan. Sincerly XBOX 360 Gamer SENSEI SUKHATIT….. Challenge me on black ops!!;)